Why do rappers hold their guns sideways?

[Nathaniel Firethorn]

http://www.slate.com/id/2238560/

- NF

[onebigelf]

Carpal tunnel from holding their pants up.

John

[Catherine]

^ ^ ^



Catherine

[BBQJOE]

Rappers like to do things sideways.


Ever seen how they wear a ball cap?

[Hud]

Because they have these...

[230RN]

I tried it with my airsoft 1911 clone and I suspect there's a little more natural pointing to it, but I didn't pursue it for long.

Maybe I should have.

Can't use the sights, of course, but it might be a something to try for point-shooting at more than the seven yards I'm limited to in my little Senior Citizen apartment.

I sure wouldn't try it at the range... huh! Seventy year old overweight coot with a thinning ponytail doin' gang-banger style shooting.

The subject has come up a number of times and it's hooted down with a lot of derision.

Yet, except for my limited experimentation, nobody that I know of has studied it for possible advantages.

It's unorthodox, but a lot of unorthodox things have actually been very successful over the last two millennia. Apropos thereof, Merry Christmas.... heh-heh-heh.

Terry, 230RN

[ZeSpectre]

It's how the gun came in the box.

[230RN]

^

Thread winning award!

[mikitsubizunizu]

It's so they'll remember what direction to put it back in their pants.

[Blackbeard]

It could be argued that when shooting one-handed it's a more natural position. The sights don't disappear when you turn your gun sideways -- you can still line them up on the target.

[neviander]

Because somehow or another it was deemed cool by the thug/thug wannabe community. I'm guessing the slew of movies depicting their heros cappin' a cop with his gun pointed sideways has something to do with their lack of skills with a pistol.

[Larry E]

Being old and crotchety I'd have to guess that it's because they're mostly not bright enough to do it right. From videos I've seen of terrorists training they seem to think it's the way to do things too. This confirms my first opinion, but then I've been known to be biased along that line.

[swgunner]

We were to to hold the M9 in tight and sideways when clearing passageways on ship. This was to prevent someone around the corner stripping away the gun. It was the only time we did it and only with the beretta, all long guns have slings for weapon retention.

[230RN]

A purely theoretical thought occured to me:

When facing multiple opponents, starting from the one on the right, recoil will drive the gun leftward, toward the next opponent, instead of upward toward nobody. (Assuming a right-handed shooter.)

Larry E noted:

From videos I've seen of terrorists training they seem to think it's the way to do things too.

And:

spwenger remarked:

We were to to hold the M9 in tight and sideways when clearing passageways on ship.

This indicates to me that an offhanded dismissal of the method may not be the best attitude.

Please understand: I am not advocating the method, but I am advocating that it be tried out in a practical test to discover the advantages and disadvantages.

Perhaps it doesn't deserve an out-of-hand dismissal --don't let orthodoxy stand in the way of practicality.

We spend whole threads debating thisa-and-thata minute detail on firearms usage, storage, and maintenance, yet "gangsta-style" presentation of the firearm is just "pshawed" away.

Okay, I can see that ejection upward might be a problem in terms of the mechanics of an auto, but how real is that "problem?"

Terry, 230RN

[shep854]

"Clearing passageways on a ship" Oh, man, even if it's done right, the ricochet hazard has to be considerable!

[SCKimberFan]

Carpal tunnel from holding their pants up.

Frickin-hilarious!!!

It's how the gun came in the box.

Stop it! Laughing so hard it hurts!

[Nathaniel Firethorn]

Confirmed: Zero out of 13 posters apparently clicked the link in the OP. So here's the whole Slate article. Too bad, because it was pretty good.

Originally Posted by Brian Palmer in Slate Magazine

Why Do Rappers Hold Their Guns Sideways?
Because it looks so Hollywood.
By Brian Palmer
Posted Monday, Dec. 14, 2009, at 6:18 PM ET

As police chased Raymond "Ready" Martinez through Times Square on Thursday, the street hustler and aspiring rapper fired two shots, holding the gun sideways "like a character out of a rap video." According to the New York Post, Martinez's side grip caused the gun to jam, enabling police to shoot and kill the suspect. What's the point of holding a gun sideways?

To look Hollywood, of course. Journalists and gun experts point to the 1993 Hughes brothers film Menace II Society, which depicts the side grip in its opening scene, as the movie that popularized the style. Although the directors claim to have witnessed a side grip robbery in Detroit in 1987, there are few reports of street gangs using the technique until after the movie came out. The Hughes brothers didn't invent the grip, though. In 1961's One-Eyed Jacks, Marlon Brando used it, as did Eli Wallach in 1966's The Good, The Bad, and the Ugly. Directors may prefer the style because it makes it easier to see both the weapon and the actor's face in a tight camera shot.

While the New York Post reported that Martinez's side grip caused the gun to "stovepipe"—that's when the spent casing gets caught in the ejection port, jamming the weapon—it's unlikely that the horizontal orientation caused the failure. In theory, tilting a gun sideways—90-degrees counter-clockwise for a right-handed shooter—means that gravity works against the ejection of the spent casing. As a practical matter, however, gravity is so weak compared to the force of the ejection that jamming is no more frequent in the sideways position than in the customary one. The more likely cause of the jam was Martinez's choice of weapon and ammunition. The MAC-10 is prone to stovepiping—a problem that's exacerbated by the use of hollow-point bullets, which may become deformed and scrape the inside of the barrel, or underpowered ammunition, which can slow the slide and throw off the mechanism's timing.

While the side grip does not increase the risk of stovepiping, it is terrible for aim. It's extremely difficult to properly use the top-mounted sight on a handgun that is turned sideways. Not that this matters much to the average street criminal. According to an FBI study, 60 percent of them don't even use the sight. Aiming a gun sideways has long been shorthand for risky, indiscriminate shooting. The title character in George Washington Cable's 1894 novel John March, Southerner, exclaims, "No man shall come around here aiming his gun sideways; endangering the throngs of casual bystanders!"

During the first half of the 20th century, soldiers used the side grip for the express purpose of endangering throngs of people. Some automatic weapons from this era—like the Mauser C96 or the grease gun—fired so quickly or with such dramatic recoil that soldiers found it impossible to aim anything but the first shot. Soldiers began tilting the weapons, so that the recoil sent the gun reeling in a horizontal rather than vertical arc, enabling them to spray bullets into an onrushing enemy battalion instead of over their heads.

Nowadays, the only time professionals use the side grip is while holding riot shields, which limit their field of vision. Turning the gun and raising it up make the sight slightly more visible.

Got a question about today's news? Ask the Explainer.

Explainer thanks Steve Howard of American Firearms & Munitions Consulting, Karl Rehn of KR Training, and Phil Spangenberger of True West Magazine.

- NF

[ZeSpectre]

Confirmed: Zero out of 13 posters apparently clicked the link in the OP.

Oh we clicked it, it's just a stupid article. Rappa's and Thugz do it because it looks "kewl" man.

Admit it, proper gun handling looks pretty dorky, gun tucked in, elbows wide, forward stance...you definitely don't look "cool" doing that (at least not "movie cool").

[230RN]

Ditto. How'd you arrive at your count? I doubted the stovepiping and of course you can't use the sights.

The article smacked of the same kind of derogatory bandwagon-jumping that I've always seen when the topic comes up.

And I believe I touched on this:

During the first half of the 20th century, soldiers used the side grip for the express purpose of endangering throngs of people. Some automatic weapons from this era—like the Mauser C96 or the grease gun—fired so quickly or with such dramatic recoil that soldiers found it impossible to aim anything but the first shot. Soldiers began tilting the weapons, so that the recoil sent the gun reeling in a horizontal rather than vertical arc, enabling them to spray bullets into an onrushing enemy battalion instead of over their heads.

[Apple a Day]

Now if someone could only figure out why rappers think it's much cooler to misspell your own name and replace every 's' with a 'z'...

[BBQJOE]

Next time I'm at the range, I gotta give it a try mang.

[henrymartin]

When facing multiple opponents, starting from the one on the right, recoil will drive the gun leftward, toward the next opponent, instead of upward toward nobody. (Assuming a right-handed shooter.)

Ditto!


Tried that at a range few times. It works rather well with a 9mm and multiple target aligned horizontally. Without any real aiming (point and shoot) the recoil will drive the gun sideways and with a rapid fire (say 15 rounds) you can easily take down the six reactive targets we have at our range.


Now, the question is why do rappers use mostly Glock, S&W and AKs in their songs (mostly in the early nineties -- I haven't listened to any newer rap) and no other brands.

[mikitsubizunizu]

because all they can afford are Jennings, Jiminez, Etc

[rainbowbob]

I have a (probably dumb) physics question:

We all take it for granted, but why does recoil force the muzzle in the direction of the sights?

I would have guessed the muzzle goes up regardless of the grip angle - but I have no idea why.

[Sylvan-Forge]

rainbowbob, you probably know this already but just forgot. I do it all the time

The axis of the bore (in ~95% of handguns) sits on top of the hand. Flip it upside down and fire it with your pinky and it will go down.

.