Hotchkiss Model 1922 light machine gun

Combat Diver · November 26th, 2009, 12:47 PM

I discovered this light machine gun last month at a SF team house here in Afghanistan. Its an old post WWI French Mdle 1922 light machine gun in 7.92mm Mauser. There were two models one that fed from a box magazine on top and this one that used stripper fed clips (15,24 &30 rd cap). The French made them is several calibers, including 6.5mm Mannlicher-Schoenauer (Greek), 7x57 Mauser (Spain), 7.7x56R (.303, UK) and 7.92x57 Mauser (Czechosolvakia). This one is missing the charging hande, bipod and muzzle brake.

From Modern Firearms

http://world.guns.ru/machine/mg74-e.htm

For markings there is one line French line "BREVETE S.G.D.C (could be another G)" with the serial number below (6365). This is below the feed port on the recievers right side. Before that its Arabic or Farsi, but the arabic numbers are the serial no. On the left side of the reciever is more Arabic writing with 7.92 in Arabic. There are no other lettering or numbers that I saw on the gun. Czechosovkia reportedly had 1000 of these guns in 7.92 (replaced them with the vz26)but does anyone know of other middle eastern country that procured these and marked in Arabic? I didn't see any Czech military proof marks (I own several BRNO and CZ weapons)

CD

rude dog · November 27th, 2009, 01:37 PM

Was this the forerunner of the BREN gun in .303 british ?? Kinda looks the same style ? [ maybe wrong ? But just a thought ]

Dewey 123 · November 27th, 2009, 06:46 PM

The Bren was based on the Czech ZB vz. 26. But I see what you mean, they do look a little similar , what with the carrying handle and whatnot. but the stock and grip styles are completely different.

Hoosier Reloader · November 28th, 2009, 09:47 AM

Check out Hatcher's Notebook. Nice information on the Hotchkiss MG and a wealth of information on other firearms.

armoredman · November 28th, 2009, 10:06 AM

No charging handle? I assume this LMG does not function, then? Would be awesome for a museum here in the States to display. Too bad fed law prevents it's import for private use.
Thanks for the post/pictures, and your service to our country sir!

Combat Diver · November 28th, 2009, 11:22 AM

Update....

While the orginal charging handle is missing it has been replaced with a USGI cleaning rod section.

Did find out that the Spainish guns went to Morroco, but those guns were 7x57. Now BRNO supplied Persia (Iran) with arms so maybe thats how this possible former Czech weapon ended up in Afghanistan?

CD

wideym · November 28th, 2009, 02:38 PM

Don't forget that even before the Soviets invaded Afganistan, weapons flowed freely between Arab and Persian countries. WWI and II contributed greatly to widespead flow of gun to those countries, either through battlefield scavanging, gifts from countires hoping to gain allies, or from kingdoms buying them.

Of course after the Soviet invasion, just about every middleeastern country sent their old out of date weapons to assist the insurgents, much like what is happening today.

TEDDY · December 1st, 2009, 07:53 PM

the mk 1 had handle in back. the feed strips might be same as MK1 or jap.

gary41 · January 18th, 2010, 07:39 PM

That picture has just what I need. I have that gun in A parts kit mius receiver and have been looking forever for A demilled receiver for it.
If any one knows anyone who has hotchkiss parts let me know.
Thanks, Gary41

riddbits · June 15th, 2010, 04:50 PM

The weapon you have pictured here is a Hotchkiss Model 1922/29/34. They were an upgraded Model 1922 made for Turkey. IMA brought a bunch into the US years ago and made some of them into display guns. There is two other parts not mentioned missing from the pictured gun; the feed tray and front grip. This feed tray indexes the feed strip and has two spring loaded dust covers on it. The gun will not function without it. The other is a wooden grip that looks like a baby bottle nipple. It screws into the mount on the bottom of the barrel assembly directly below the carry handle.

One cool thing about the gun is the rate reducer in the trigger group. On the right side of the trigger group in front of the trigger is the safety. In front of that is a round device that is actually a rate selector that engages a fly wheel to slow down the cyclic rate. If memory serves, it is adjustable from 450 rpm to 600 rpm.

ISC · August 18th, 2010, 01:53 PM

The Japs made a LMG that was very similar to the Hotchkiss. My understanding was that the Hotchkiss was fed from a tray that had a clip holding the ammo and that the entire tray moved through the gun as you fired it like an old typewriter, I've only seen them in museums behind glass so I'm just going by what I read.

Famaldehide Face · August 19th, 2010, 09:37 AM

The Japanese Hotchkiss youre on about is the Type 11 below, came with a cool magazine hopper:

Both came with what would be called U15 stocks:

November 26th, 2009, 12:47 PM	#1
Combat Diver Senior Member Join Date: 10-24-04 Location: Supply, NC but in Afghanistan Posts: 326	Hotchkiss Model 1922 light machine gun I discovered this light machine gun last month at a SF team house here in Afghanistan. Its an old post WWI French Mdle 1922 light machine gun in 7.92mm Mauser. There were two models one that fed from a box magazine on top and this one that used stripper fed clips (15,24 &30 rd cap). The French made them is several calibers, including 6.5mm Mannlicher-Schoenauer (Greek), 7x57 Mauser (Spain), 7.7x56R (.303, UK) and 7.92x57 Mauser (Czechosolvakia). This one is missing the charging hande, bipod and muzzle brake. From Modern Firearms http://world.guns.ru/machine/mg74-e.htm For markings there is one line French line "BREVETE S.G.D.C (could be another G)" with the serial number below (6365). This is below the feed port on the recievers right side. Before that its Arabic or Farsi, but the arabic numbers are the serial no. On the left side of the reciever is more Arabic writing with 7.92 in Arabic. There are no other lettering or numbers that I saw on the gun. Czechosovkia reportedly had 1000 of these guns in 7.92 (replaced them with the vz26)but does anyone know of other middle eastern country that procured these and marked in Arabic? I didn't see any Czech military proof marks (I own several BRNO and CZ weapons) CD __________________ De Oppresso Liber Iraq: 91,03-06,08 & 09' Afghanistan: 09,10'

November 27th, 2009, 06:46 PM	#3
Dewey 123 Senior Member Join Date: 10-30-09 Location: Rochester, NH Posts: 268	The Bren was based on the Czech ZB vz. 26. But I see what you mean, they do look a little similar , what with the carrying handle and whatnot. but the stock and grip styles are completely different. __________________ I may not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it. Yes, I am a Pro-Gun Democrat, but with a strong streak of libertarianism. Proud native of New Hampshire. Live free or Die!

November 28th, 2009, 09:47 AM	#4
Hoosier Reloader Member Join Date: 05-08-07 Posts: 78	Check out Hatcher's Notebook. Nice information on the Hotchkiss MG and a wealth of information on other firearms. __________________ "To show you how radical I am, I want carjackers dead. I want rapists dead. I want burglars dead. I want child molesters dead. I want the bad guys dead. No court case. No parole. No early release. I want 'em dead. Get a gun and when they attack you, shoot 'em." Ted Nugent - speaking at the NRA convention April 17, 2005

November 28th, 2009, 10:06 AM	#5
armoredman Senior Member Join Date: 11-19-03 Location: AZ Posts: 10,367	No charging handle? I assume this LMG does not function, then? Would be awesome for a museum here in the States to display. Too bad fed law prevents it's import for private use. Thanks for the post/pictures, and your service to our country sir! __________________ If total government control equals safety, why are prisons so dangerous? I pledge allegiance to the Constitution of The United States of America, and to the Republic which it defines. http://www.correctionofficersmemorialwall.com/ http://czforum.com/

November 28th, 2009, 11:22 AM	#6
Combat Diver Senior Member Join Date: 10-24-04 Location: Supply, NC but in Afghanistan Posts: 326	Update.... While the orginal charging handle is missing it has been replaced with a USGI cleaning rod section. Did find out that the Spainish guns went to Morroco, but those guns were 7x57. Now BRNO supplied Persia (Iran) with arms so maybe thats how this possible former Czech weapon ended up in Afghanistan? CD __________________ De Oppresso Liber Iraq: 91,03-06,08 & 09' Afghanistan: 09,10'

November 27th, 2009, 01:37 PM	#2
rude dog New Member Join Date: 08-05-09 Location: france Posts: 28	Was this the forerunner of the BREN gun in .303 british ?? Kinda looks the same style ? [ maybe wrong ? But just a thought ]

November 28th, 2009, 02:38 PM	#7
wideym Senior Member Join Date: 05-30-07 Location: Arkansas Posts: 1,021	Don't forget that even before the Soviets invaded Afganistan, weapons flowed freely between Arab and Persian countries. WWI and II contributed greatly to widespead flow of gun to those countries, either through battlefield scavanging, gifts from countires hoping to gain allies, or from kingdoms buying them. Of course after the Soviet invasion, just about every middleeastern country sent their old out of date weapons to assist the insurgents, much like what is happening today.

December 1st, 2009, 07:53 PM	#8
TEDDY Senior Member Join Date: 01-02-07 Location: MANNING SC Posts: 1,313	hotchkiss the mk 1 had handle in back. the feed strips might be same as MK1 or jap.

January 18th, 2010, 07:39 PM	#9
gary41 New Member Join Date: 01-18-10 Posts: 1	That picture has just what I need. I have that gun in A parts kit mius receiver and have been looking forever for A demilled receiver for it. If any one knows anyone who has hotchkiss parts let me know. Thanks, Gary41

June 15th, 2010, 04:50 PM	#10
riddbits New Member Join Date: 06-15-10 Posts: 1	The weapon you have pictured here is a Hotchkiss Model 1922/29/34. They were an upgraded Model 1922 made for Turkey. IMA brought a bunch into the US years ago and made some of them into display guns. There is two other parts not mentioned missing from the pictured gun; the feed tray and front grip. This feed tray indexes the feed strip and has two spring loaded dust covers on it. The gun will not function without it. The other is a wooden grip that looks like a baby bottle nipple. It screws into the mount on the bottom of the barrel assembly directly below the carry handle. One cool thing about the gun is the rate reducer in the trigger group. On the right side of the trigger group in front of the trigger is the safety. In front of that is a round device that is actually a rate selector that engages a fly wheel to slow down the cyclic rate. If memory serves, it is adjustable from 450 rpm to 600 rpm. Last edited by riddbits; June 17th, 2010 at 12:02 AM..

August 18th, 2010, 01:53 PM	#11
ISC Member Join Date: 10-15-08 Posts: 39	The Japs made a LMG that was very similar to the Hotchkiss. My understanding was that the Hotchkiss was fed from a tray that had a clip holding the ammo and that the entire tray moved through the gun as you fired it like an old typewriter, I've only seen them in museums behind glass so I'm just going by what I read.

August 19th, 2010, 09:37 AM	#12
Famaldehide Face Senior Member Join Date: 04-06-08 Posts: 105	The Japanese Hotchkiss youre on about is the Type 11 below, came with a cool magazine hopper: Both came with what would be called U15 stocks: __________________ I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass... and I'm all out of bubblegum.

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